Rachel Keck - Transcript

Rachel Keck

Wed, 2/2 6:49AM • 53:45

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, integrity, book, authenticity, impact, trust, feel, big, customer service, authentic, learning, realized, part, leader, work, company, culture, corporate, women, clarity

SPEAKERS

Rachel Keck, Jamie Stephens

Rachel Keck  00:00

That's what this great resignation thing is about. It's an awakening that the workplace has become so inauthentic that there is a wildfire of lack of integrity.

Jamie Stephens  00:15

Hey there and welcome back to breaking up with corporate. I'm Jamie, Renee, your host and truth telling gal pal here to have the real conversations with badass women doing their thing will talk candidly about the hard lessons impact business failure mindset, corporate BS and all the things. I'm excited to highlight and learn from these amazing women that have stepped into their power and are proving what's possible. Let's do this. Get ready to dive right into this conversation with Rachel QIC best selling author of the book, not everyone is like you. Rachel is a coach and consultant working at the intersection of workplace culture and customer service, where integrity authenticity and connectedness are key. As you can imagine, we have a lot to chat about. So let's go. Okay. Yeah, so

01:07

carry on. To me. Sounds good. Me? Well, I was just gonna say give me a little snippet about what your like, your vision is with this. I love I love the concept and what you're putting out there. Awesome. Yeah,

Jamie Stephens  01:23

no, I I really the difference. It's made for me, like I last week was my last day at corporate. And I've decided that like I I'm done, like I line in the sand. Like, I don't care what's next for me, but it like, not gone back. Yeah. So which is a very freeing decision to have all of the conversations that I feel like I've wanted to have over the years of just kind of a kind of along the things that you're doing. I'm well, I don't know, but like from like the workplace culture, and that sort of aspect. Really just bringing things to light, like, it's not always about just like, what is the management's vision, but really, it comes down to those middle managers, are they when upholding the vision of the leaders, and kind of the gaps that are present in that. So I want to kind of highlight that stuff with people who've experienced similar situations. But more importantly, I just want to kind of like bring to people's attention, like, hey, there's another way, like, there's women out here that are doing it their own way. They're making their own path, they're working for themselves, they're being like showing up being the badass women they are and like, we don't need that crap. So that's my ultimate vision is to bring those examples that I've really sought out over the years, and then just kind of bring them to my family and friends and network and all of those things, and just women in general to really empower women with decisions. Yes.

03:05

You know, it's so interesting, Jamie about that. Oh, so we had a Halloween party. And three, and so we just had, like our kids and parents, you know, our kids, his friends, families, and three of the dads were wanting like they're on their way out, or they're looking for really, what's more meaningful work to them. And I and so to have the courage like you just say, because I think a lot of times you get stuck. And then you are stuck. Like you feel like you have to have the next thing before you make a decision, which which dammed up the whole process I like and so to actually have the courage to say, Okay, it's not this and I'm willing to step into the unknown. To figure it out. Like that's a that's a huge first step. Is that what that courage and willingness to do that?

Jamie Stephens  04:12

Yeah, and I think that not that I want to make this about me by any means, but I have the courage because I kind of did that a baby step a few years ago, I left and then I realized, like, I my mental space was not in a position like it all came crashing down to where I was like, I'm not prepared for this. And I did end up going back to corporate and but I've continued to work on myself over these last like three, four years and just in a totally different space than I was whenever I left at that point, so my goal is to have like women see okay, here is here's some things that you can start doing right now while you're in corporate just so you're not like totally out on a limb like I was the first Because I didn't realize I didn't know. I didn't know. Right. So it's that. I really, it's the mental. And it's the self growth that is that more than anything else, in my opinion.

05:17

Yeah. Well, and I think to what, what that part of your story reminds me of it's how much more powerful is to move towards something than to be moving away from something. Right, we tend to get stuck. And I mean, we just want to escape what we're in, then it doesn't really that's not in a different energy. Yeah. Not an ideal place, because you're just going to actually escape into the same thing, until you can shift into what you're moving toward. I mean, so beautiful design of like, getting out. Okay, you were just escaping. So you went back to your comfort. But then you had your eye on something like No, I, you had your eye on you were moving towards something.

Jamie Stephens  06:07

Yeah. Yeah. And it also makes that easier to kind of let just kind of the other bullshit fall away. You know, I mean, this is like, Okay, I don't have to get so wrapped up in this drama, because it's not. It's not ultimately my drama, you know?

06:23

Yeah. Right. it detaches you a bit. You're not. Yeah, losing the forest for the trees. You're detached. Yeah, I'm, I'm curious. Like, what I was getting ready to rant about before I got on with you. Yeah, was integrity, because integrity? And I don't know, I'm curious about, especially people wanting to leave corporate America, if it the lack of integrity is a huge driver. And I don't think people think of it as integrity, right? Because they don't. And also that feels really, like, critical to say, Oh, my God, you have a lack of integrity? Well, I

Jamie Stephens  07:10

think it shows

07:11

graded stuff.

Jamie Stephens  07:13

Yes, it shows up in so many ways. And my personal opinion on that is yes, it is a lack of lack of integrity, and also to that account, a lack of accountability. So it's one thing if you're, like, very self sufficient, and you do what you say, you're gonna do, and you do all the things, but then, like, you're the easy kid, right? You're like, you don't have to be micromanage. But then there's other people, that impacts your ability to do your job, that are not doing theirs. And like, it's the same issues over and over, you know, so it's like, you just lose faith that something is going to change whenever it's like the same thing over and over, and you're not witnessing any of like, anything different, you know, so, and on the integrity aspect, I think there's such a disconnect whenever people have values and their mission, like pasted up on the walls, literally and pasted on the walls. And then they don't follow them and found, right and then it's like, whoa, like, yeah, really equals your value, because you can't,

08:30

yeah, that's not what I'm experiencing around here. So to me, to me, and you just helped me have this. Aha, about how this all fits yet. So my My thing is, connection, connectedness for like, if we can be connected, then I mean, how, however, that looks connected processes connecting people with each other. That connection is like this ideal place. But but to support that connection, we need authenticity and integrity. And what I just realized from what you're saying is, I've always felt like that, really to have accountability. You have to have clarity. You can't accountability, a joke. And it's really, really hard. Actually, it's too hard. If you don't have clarity, when you have clarity, accountability is so simple, low, easily from that. Yeah. But but you can't have integrity without authenticity, like it has. Authenticity is the seed of integrity. And I think that's, and as you were talking with, like, that's what this great resignation thing is about, is that we've gotten so like the workplace. It's an awakening that the workplace has become so inauthentic There is a wildfire of lack of integrity. And so people are leaving, they have to leave it to be authentic. Yeah, because there's so much rub and authenticity. But the thing is, it's like the people that are saying they're a rub to it. Yeah. Sad.

Jamie Stephens  10:20

And they're not happy. I mean, that's what it is very sad that because it's like, well, here's an example. We went through this big restructure at my previous employer. Like top performer, like the entire replenishment department for our whole team. And I think there were 30 40% of the people that decided to be done, like within the entire organization. I was one of them. And so that was just the initial, like, okay, yeah, I pass on this. I mean, there's still people that are just trickling out. Now, the sad part is, is I've got friends that I supported in my role there that are still there, that get the brunt of it, you know, like they're dealing with this team. That is, I mean, I think there's two kinds of people that stay. There's the people that want to actually make a difference and feel like this is an opportunity for me to make an impact. And there's, well, three, let's let's back up, there's the second type that are just hanging on for the annual bonus. And then as soon as all of that hits around the door, because that's what companies do. Like you, you get those hangers on until you get that next, you know, big paycheck. And then three, there's the people that really could just care less. They haven't been doing their job, the whole stinking pandemic, so why should it impact them now?

11:58

Yeah, yeah. I think that's

Jamie Stephens  12:01

probably very crass. But like that, drew my opinion of, like, the state of things right now. And it's just, like, employers just don't get it. They're like, Was everybody leaving? We thought you would love to do that. I mean, it's like, Are you freaking kidding me? Like, yeah, and enough on our plate without all of this drama that hey, is not mine. And I'm realizing that?

12:26

Yeah, you know, and it's no wonder like, we, each of us have, each of us have so much. I mean, we're so complex individually. And then when you add us all together, it just gets really complicated. And, you know, without, without authenticity and clarity, how, like, how do you be together? Well, and, and, and, you know, what, what's so frustrating? Is that all you have to do as a leader is ask and listen. Really not? I mean, I mean, come on, like, ask the question, right? And actually listen, like, do the work to do that. Like that. And it takes some work. We're not naturally a lot of most of us are not naturally very good listeners. So but do it do the work? Like if you want to be able to do that

Jamie Stephens  13:27

work? Yeah. Especially like, whenever people are making it very clear. Like, I had a one on one with my boss every week, and I'm like, these are the same issues will come to me, if you have a problem. I've been coming to you, I still have the same problems. You know, like, I don't? What do you do? I mean, it's just

13:47

like, yeah, part of what? Levy. So, so my story is I, you know, I worked for other people, pretty autonomously for the beginning of my career. And then when I met my husband, now, I convinced him to start our own business, because it make more money and travel less, and we started our own business. And then I had this real desire. So So you mentioned the three types of people, I am the type of person that's like, I am not going to give up we are in a better place. And I'm not going to give up i can see another road I see another path. I see how we can maybe try a descent. But so I went back in because I wanted to I think I just wanted to see like, Yeah, can I be in this and be authentic? And have integrity and and develop connection? Like can I do culture on the inside instead of on the outside? And it is really it's really hard

Jamie Stephens  14:52

very you're on the outside now though, right? You're doing I'm on

14:56

the outside? Yeah. So I yeah, I can say Yeah, I consult, so I stay on the outside and throw little nuggets funny.

Jamie Stephens  15:06

You know, like, So do people get it? Or do they like, do they call you but like when there's a problem? Or do they call you preemptively? Or is it do you just get like a mixed bag?

15:17

I will say, over the last couple of years, I have developed a network of people that get it. But I think there have been enough big hit. And the rate resignation is, is just in the line and big hits that people are starting to realize, oh, like we have, we have to do something different. Now they have not, I mean, a lot of like no idea. And there's, there's still a lack of integrity, and it's still on an authentic but at least there's this opening or this awareness of like, okay, maybe that maybe there's a different way to do this. Maybe we need to think about this a different way. So I am attracting people that wonder about that, that are curious about that. So what I love to do, is go in so So a company may say we're growing and we want to make sure our culture's say, you know, we work hard to make our culture good. And so we want to make sure it stays good as we grow. And so that's one of the things that I get, or I get, we want a better customer experience. Basically, we want to listen to we want to listen better is kind of what that equates to. So those are the two people I get and and I always say let's start with the frontline. Like, let's ask and listen first, let's pour into your frontline people first, and see what their real experiences. And then I'm going to help you listen to that. And make some decisions based on that. That's my purpose. My purpose is listening and connecting. Or another way to say that is like sensing and integrating.

Jamie Stephens  16:59

Yeah, cuz I imagine being on the receiving end of that information is not always pleasant, assuming people are forthcoming and feel empowered to actually use their voices. You know, that's another thing that I think people struggle with it because if you really, really need your job, you know, sometimes people are afraid to speak up and say, what's not okay? Because you're like, on one hand, I'm really thankful I have this job. And I appreciate this job. And it feeds my family. And on the other hand, like, Y'all can do way better. So like having the courage to say that I bet is pretty tough.

17:39

Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the things that I realized, and you know, this is really helpful to people. One of the most important things in my, for me and growing my own business, is sustainability. Yeah. So I have this post it note right by me, for my businesses says I want a strong foundation of balance and boundaries in order to grow a sustainable business. And so I think that part of that commitment to balance and boundaries in growth is what I just don't, that's very hard. It's hard. Yeah. And I'm sure the bigger you get, the harder it is, you know, because it's like, oh, we just need to get that done. And now you have more people counting on you. And now, now there's all the pressure and you know, it just, there's so much pressure, but then also I'm like, is that pressure an illusion? I think it's kind of an illusion.

Jamie Stephens  18:45

Well, it's self made pressure a lot, right? It's like, are we dealing with like, hearts and brain surgery? Like most of the time, not like, right, simmer down and do it right? Yeah. Yeah. Like take the time to train people take the time to listen to people. Take the time, this is the most important, I think, take the time to let your people know how their job impacts across the entire organization again, because when people don't understand and they are just working in a bubble, they could give two shits if they're doing a good job, right? But if they know that it's going to impact Mary and accounting, and it's gonna impact Katy and sales and it's gonna me you know, like, all of a sudden, you just have more buy in and you understand how you relate to the bigger picture. And I think it's just so overlooked everywhere I

19:43

go. It is I mean, that, that whole, that transparency, and I mean, that's one of the things that I was getting ready to rant about was just sometimes leaders feel so I don't know if it's what the fear is. I mean, who knows, you know, but it's fear base of like, we can't, if everybody knew what was going on like, then we'd lose control. But your loot, like you're actually losing control, you're losing control now, because you're not being transparent and communicating. Say, say it. I had another thought when you were sharing, sharing that with the bubbles Oh, because I was thinking to how you're saying, like, you're in the bubble, and you're losing it. And I think even the best cultures? And I think we have to be I mean, definitely it goes back to my sustainability thing. I think we have to be careful. Cuz I'm working with a wonderful client right now that has has a great purpose and may front load the purpose like as soon as people come in, they know why you know why they're being brought in, they know what the big purpose is, and why they show up every day. And I mean, they're doing that really well. But what they're, what it seems like they're missing is that that purpose kind of can drain out. Like, if you're just filling them full of something, there is a quart, like, it ends up being a colander and like, because the system or the process, or the actual work is draining the purpose out of them. Yeah. And so I think even when we leave what feels like, you know, too tight jacket or bare jeans, we still have to be careful about, you know, what is the purpose? And how is that purpose? How are we living that purpose and all our decisions and how we're building our own stuff, whatever that it what I mean, whether it's a family and a household or a business, or whatever it is. Yeah. Like, I it was so big for me, I remember my first purpose was to create opportunities for raw face. So to me, it meant I want I want for myself and others, to always be on the lookout for ways that we can be like unlearning, and shedding. You know, I mean, that's the raw part of like, just getting down to the beautiful wood. Yeah. And then the faith part is really like the posture of openness and receptiveness and trust with something bigger. And I remember when I turn that purpose out. So it's not just for me, but I'm looking now out in the world for people that align with that, and, and things I can do that were aligned with it. It was so proud. I mean, it was like, it was such a shift. Well, it was the moving tour, I was now moving towards something, instead of moving away from like, Yeah, this is not it. This is not fulfilling, I'm burning out. And

Jamie Stephens  23:03

yeah, it does help us get that clarity, though, of what you're not available for. Your next time, it may be a different set of, you know, a different set of circumstances, but you're like, Okay, well, it's not the same one. So hopefully. Yeah,

23:21

I know, hopefully, there's growth. My husband, I hope. So my husband recently I like, Okay, I think I'm on the third iteration of this whole situation happening, and I'm ready to do it differently now. Like, let's do this different.

Jamie Stephens  23:35

So what's the most satisfying moment, like? Declines ever, like graduate to where like, they've really just accomplished culture to where they're like, Okay, we

23:47

get it now. Well, I mean, you know, what I love about culture is it's never really, there's no completion, because you're always either adding or deleting or changing, or that's probably partly why I'm attracted to it. But I had to redefine what success was, like, I went, I went through this three year. Program is a spiritual direction program, but it was kind of like coaching and mindfulness. And it was, it was transformative. But through that process, and, and learning to listen really well, I had to redefine what success was. So I redefine success to be freedom. And so when I'm working with companies or individuals, I'm just looking for that little expansion, like, Oh, you just, you just tapped into something and you or in your organization that could expand and free something that and so that that's the moment you know, when like somebody will, you know, be one on one and we'll be talking about you know, that there's a there's an authenticity because Maybe a judgment, like they're just judging and critical, every single thing around them, and there's no freedom in that they're just fat. And so when we can have a conversation and get to the point where it's like, oh, do judge every seat like I am in judgment all the time, like that, to me, those are moments of completion. I'm like, okay, my work here is done. I feel good about the, like, just those little moments.

Jamie Stephens  25:29

Yeah. Do they ever get to the point to where they then realize that like, the things that they're judging, are really a reflection? Or is that too deep? Yeah. Yeah.

25:41

workplace culture? I am indeed, I mean, it is all deep to me like it all it all. Yeah, from who you are. And so it, it doesn't work very well, with me if we don't go there. I remember one. One guy I was working with and it was, you know, just, he didn't trust himself at all. And, you know, that's, that's like, from way before, like, that's your little teeny boy inside of you, that doesn't trust the world. And now you don't trust yourself in the world. And now you don't trust your team employees? Yeah, or your employees or the people, you know. And so that little seed creates this culture of distress. And everybody's walking on eggshells, and the nervous you're gonna explode, you know? And so like, that's what I see. And the conversations are around like, what? How willing are you to heal? How willing are you to see that?

Jamie Stephens  26:51

That's awesome. Are

26:52

you to heal it

Jamie Stephens  26:54

that you get that? I mean, like, that's not something I would have expected with like, a workplace culture consultant. I mean, like, that's impressive.

27:06

Well, and I think, you know, I think, what, what is challenging in the workplace is that those little, I mean, you, I'm sure you've had these moments, where it's like, you have this big burst of new something inside of you, but then you say it out loud. And it seems like this teeny, tiny speck thing? Yeah. You're like, no, wait, no, wait, this is actually super nova. And like, it sounds like a. And that's part of the prot like, part of this becoming authentic. I mean, living in more authenticity, is, it takes a while for us to unsee the patterns we've already seen, like this guy, people are going to see and then just trusting for a while, like they were going to have to do their own work. To see him in something different. For him to be received is something like it's, we're all in it together. Yeah. And so without everybody consciously doing it, it's very hard to see it. Yeah.

Jamie Stephens  28:13

It definitely I can see it. If if you can get at the top, though, it seems like eventually, if they can maintain that integrity within themselves that could then flow through to the rest of the organization. Yeah,

28:29

the idea is that then the impact changes, right? They're more aware of their impact, because their intentions are different or more conscious of the impact and making different decisions.

Jamie Stephens  28:43

Yeah. So do you find yourself working with like, mostly, like small business owners or medium or like large companies? Or is it Yeah, it's all across the board.

28:52

So it's usually I ended up with companies in some sort of growth, period. Like they already know what they're doing. There's not going to get them to where they're going next. Yeah. And so that's kind of that's kind of where I land is that, that gap? And helping them but it's all across the board. I mean, so my, I have a book that now with a proof proofreader that's coming out, the emotion is coming out. I know on November 17, I'm so excited about it. And the what I found as I was doing interviews, I did like 50 plus interviews for the book. And I kept coming across these leaders that were like, amazed, they were like, What? No, I don't even know about your company. How do we not know about the work that you are like, you are an amazing leader and nobody knows if you're an amazing leader. So my hope is I was so encouraged and inspired by the book interviews because people are doing it. I mean, people are doing it.

Jamie Stephens  30:11

I love it. So yeah, tell me tell us more about this book. Yeah. So all those good things

30:17

what? My favorite so the my favorites. Space is where customer service and culture kind of intersect. So customer service is my people. I mean, that's just, that's who I am a service person. I'm a two on the Enneagram. And so service was kind of like part of who I am. But where, where we talk about, you know, how customer service like what's, what's their experience? And how is that how is the culture surrounding the idea of service? And how do we do service? And what are we in service of. So that's kind of the space, I love what the the name of the book is, everyone is not like you. And it's really about creating authenticity and connection in today's workplace. So how, because I think a lot of time, a lot of times, especially with customer service, you know, we're kind of we're squeezing the authenticity out of them so that they're living in integrity, or they're living outside of integrity. And then we're like, well, they don't have any they need to fly, aren't they going above and beyond? You know, why aren't you jazz? Why aren't you know? What, you know, why are they leaving? Because you squeeze their soul out of them. But then you have these other like Zappos and Nordstrom with an old, like, these other companies that are finding a way to like, feel authenticity. Yeah. At those front lines. Well, the reason why it works is because those people now feel like they can choose integrity for themselves. They're living and working in integrity. And so they're happy. Yeah, happier. Yeah, happier. It's really not rocket science. But it's very hard to actually. It's hard to actualize.

Jamie Stephens  32:18

Yeah. So what's one of your favorite stories from the book? If you can give us just?

32:24

Oh, good question. There's, there's three actually that come to mind. One, he had built this company, he had been part of like, the initial building of this company that does, it's called NK, Nielsen Kellerman, I think it's the name of it. And they do like all sorts of sports, like things like equipment for rowing machines, and different sports machines like that. But as they were building the company, they decided that customer service was going to be a pivotal piece of what they did, that they wanted experts that were using the equipment in customer service, so that they could mind all the opportunities to better the product at the beginning of the line. And so they built their whole company around it. Brilliant that. Like, that is how it, that's awesome. Like, that's how it needs to be instead of customer service being the end of the line afterthought of like, crap, now we need somebody to trust these people after the fact.

Jamie Stephens  33:33

To that, and then you may pay those people for their expertise. Yeah. And then they feel valued. And it's just like this whole gorgeous circle.

33:42

It is. I mean, yes, it's like it worked. It was so inspiring. It was so inspiring. And then another leader that I tagged to, that was actually to two of the leaders that were again, like, Oh, my God, nobody, nobody knows. We need to put your face on a billboard of like, this is what an amazing leader leads like, yeah. But the a local company here in Kansas City, poly store, Grant, John was just saying that he really he is in an effort to have his people leave. fuller than when they got there. So like, how does he send home his employees full for their family, instead of draining them down? And then sending him home? Yeah, so here's like, we've got I mean, his whole fate, we've got to slow down. So we can go fast, like we have slow down and figure out these key pieces before we just go crazy. And I just, I mean, like that. You're that.

Jamie Stephens  34:49

Like, even if you don't get it like 100% Right? It just having that as your compass like you're gonna do everything like that's me. I

34:59

mean, what better Decisions are you going to make for your people having that in mind. And then the third one I was thinking about was Brian Remzi is, is the CEO of civic class. So they do technology for municipalities. And he was just such an amazing guy. And he was a stat for me, it's something I've used in my work to kind of as an assessment is that we tend policies and procedures tend to be made for people that are fucking up. Basically, not this was not his words, I will say, did not say bye. But he's like, why aren't we making policies that empower rockstars? And just like, let's assume that everybody's a rock star, it's just, like, go in with some trust and assume that you have what it takes? And how do we craft policies that like propel you, and make it easy for you?

Jamie Stephens  36:02

It's like, such simple concepts that are just so profound. And just so like, how are so many people missing the mark?

36:13

Now, no. I mean, it's that in authenticity, like authenticity is showing up as who you are, and we're terrified of that. I care. Like, I get terrified of that. We're just, it's like, it should be this way. And then when you get into leadership, it's even more like a shed it should be. I think, when you leave, I mean, I don't know about us for you. But like, when you leave that whole rat race, and you start your own thing, that that fear of being authentic is still there. It's still like, I mean, that was one of my most recent kind of things that came to work on is like your best is enough. Yeah, like enough with the inauthenticity of like, my best is never enough. I need to man it needs to look this way. And it needs to be. Yeah. Like, no, like, I just need to show up fully as myself. Yeah. And that is the best I can do. And it is totally enough. Yeah, I don't know if you can see this as a mother I can. I have permission slips. So

Jamie Stephens  37:38

it's just one of those, I guess I should say out loud, since this is a podcast, but it's like a sticky note, as I give myself permission to start small, messy and imperfect. I get better by doing. It's those like, yeah, it's that perfection that has held me back for so long to just which I realized now it's just a whole other thing that wasn't even, you know, it's fear. It's fear based. And so like, yeah, that's a lesson that I have just recently feel like I'm on the other side of it. I mean, it took a long time. But yeah, it's, it's like, yeah, it's just hard to, to be raw, and to be messy. And so like, it is really inspiring work that you get to do with people.

38:29

I just finished last night, a book called burnout. Highly recommend it, it's by Emily and Amelia. Because ski, I think that's how you say their name to go ski. But at the so I the last part I was reading was about self compassion. And how hot like, just how hard it is, like when we get out of our patterns. It's very, it's hard. It's hard to get out of them. And then it's hard being out of them. Yeah. And she was telling the, she was telling the story of someone to that inner critic, you know, I mean, because that's, like, that's telling me that my goodness, my best not enough, is that voice inside my head. And so she was telling the story of this woman that was kind of trying to, like characterize her inner critic, because if we, if we make that inner critic, you know, like a person then it's easier to detach ourselves from it. And so she was saying that this person this woman came in and saw her daughter and working on her homework and was like looking at her daughter and saying I wonder what her daughter's you know what, what stories are already like, what is her critic already sound like? And then she realized that her critic was not this. She had been calling her perfect, Julie, but she was actually this little girl in Feel better mom's makeup that was acting like perfect. Yeah, I know. I was like cry. Because that's that perfectionism. Yeah, it's our little girls that need to be seen a certain way. And so then they're like beating us up in our head to be that what it's like, actually, so she actually says now to that, like, I see you, kiddo. It's okay. And what is her? Like? What is

Jamie Stephens  40:31

okay? I just thought I was on the other side.

40:36

It keeps going. You just keep going? Deeper.

Jamie Stephens  40:41

Because mine is my main girl is Sheila. I'm always like, Shut up Sheila. In my head. Yeah, no, it's like, oh.

40:49

Yeah. Little like, scared, honestly. Trying to keep us safe. Oh, interesting.

Jamie Stephens  41:01

That's wild. It's good. So have you found that the clients you attract are on things that you need to work on within your Oh, yeah.

41:10

100%. Always, always that and always like, what I'm learning? I mean, the beauty is that, okay, I'm open to that, right. So I'm open to what my, what am I learning next? And so I'm pulling in resources. So then I can use those resources to help as students. So it's like, always I am learning something, and then giving it to somebody else, and learning and giving like it's coming through me. And, yeah, it's always it's my work.

Jamie Stephens  41:42

It's a nice opportunity to see blind spots and stuff, too, because I'm sure there's been times where you're like, Oh, my God, this client is driving me nuts. And then you're like,

41:55

Yeah, it's me. It's me. It's me. I know. I know. It is. It. I mean, I just, it happens regularly. And I think that's the that's the part that I'm still on that growing edge of like, you're really putting yourself out there. And you're exposing yourself. So I'm, I get to serve as president of this nonprofit board right now. And again, it's like, I'm so vulnerable to the learning. Like, does I know, both? And also, that's what I want to be like, how else am I going to learn something different?

Jamie Stephens  42:40

Right. Yeah, no, I think it's a good opportunity to, it's like a double whammy for you. Yeah, like, Yeah. Has there been anything that's really surprised you where like, once you got in, where you were just like, surprised with the outcome, not necessarily the outcome, but just kind of the process?

43:00

Yeah, I mean, well, one thing that always surprises me in my work is that when you give people when you give people space, to be authentic, and seen, that feels safe to them, they'll, they will be seen, they'll show up. I mean, it's just surprised, like, I have a collaborator, Maddie that, that helps me with the work and facilitates and coaches with me. And she just is always like, God, you didn't like you have this group of construction workers coming in and you think they're, they're gonna fight the whole thing. And they don't like they totally relax, and soften into the whole thing. Or, or you have this group that you think is going to be really, like, instantly relaxed into it. But you have to really, like, they do not trust the space and you have to it takes like two or three sessions before they really like relaxed into No, really, just the safe. It's okay. And so that's always like, it's surprising how people show up. But I've also learned like, I guess part of my work has been just to be open to surprised like it oh, it like you think that you know, by really? You don't? Yeah, no, you know, which is you know, part of what happens in corporate it's like the story is set and it's like written in stone but yet that's not how we are like, yeah, we're evolving is

Jamie Stephens  44:35

Can I ask you a few questions about your book? Yeah. Okay, so I and I'm just gonna like if anything makes you uncomfortable, but you can we can edit it out. It doesn't matter because I'm just gonna be like asking all the things because I'm curious. So I noticed I saw was creeping on your Instagram and I noticed the it's 299 which I've heard this because I've heard this like, let me slow down a little bit. I'm assuming you're self publishing, is I

45:09

happen to have a publisher, but they're publishing through Amazon, which you can do yourself.

Jamie Stephens  45:14

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I've heard that that price point is like, perfect, because, well, one, it's an easy buy. But two, because Amazon doesn't take as much money, like, it's a way smaller percentage of the funds they take or something.

45:33

I don't know about that part. Mine was for strategies. So you have like, you launch a pre order of the book for 99 cents. And when you launch your pre order, that's when you can hit number one bestseller before you've even released your book. Yeah. And then you make it to 99. Like, then you move up to 299 for the preorder. And then you release your ebook at 299. Which then if you can solicit enough reviews, and you that does something else, to elevate the book. And so So and then you have multiple, so you have preorder ebook, and then next year, I'll release the paperback. Okay,

Jamie Stephens  46:17

yeah, that Yeah. Do you will you ever, like record an audio of it?

46:23

I want to. I love audio. I love like when Brene Brown is like my measure, I felt like, not as like, not I don't want to be Brene Brown. But it's like, whenever I feel like that mean, girl is happening, especially around speaking. I look at her onstage and she's so real and warm. And like draws people in with her ability. That I'm like that. That don't want to be but anyways, I love when she reads her book. So I want to read my book. Yeah, yeah. When the paperback comes out, I think I'll release the audio. Book.

Jamie Stephens  47:01

Yeah, you'll have to check with your publisher, because I did read somewhere that it's like at that price point. Like Amazon only takes like, I don't know, it was something around it was a lot better to publish it to 99 than it wasn't 999. Because they take such a higher percentage. Or something like that. Anyway, I

47:23

was just curious. I know there's a whole I mean, with Amazon, there's a whole strategy I paid somebody did that knows the strategy. That's awesome. I'm just doing doing the book. I need to spend my energy on that. Like, I'm not a very I'm not very good at learning stuff that I don't want to learn.

Jamie Stephens  47:44

Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair, because it's just like, well, then that feels joy. God.

47:51

I tried to do my own, like book funnel on like, the funnel software. And I'm like, this is I hate this. It takes somebody else.

Jamie Stephens  48:04

Exactly. You know, I think that's the point where you get to where it's just like, Okay, I'm gonna stay in my zone of genius and let other people who were this is, that's what I think it's nice to realize is that everybody has their own zone of genius. So something that yeah, eight, it's actually a joy for somebody else to do. And like being part of being authentic is just recognizing that in yourself and just being like, yeah, I really don't want to do this, because it does not like me a bit drains my energy. So knowing that and being confident to hand it off, that's

48:41

interesting. I mean, trusting yourself to stay in your lane. Is I we did, I did this work with our friend Katie Winkle one, like money mindset, kind of clearing some energetic merit barriers to money mindset, but really, money and sex and self like all of these things have the same sort of energy. So when you just trust that I'm going to stay in my lane. And I'm going to do and it's going to cut, like, I trust that all the stuff is going to come that needs to come like the support the money to hire the support. Like it's just going to happen. I'm not going to worry about it. I mean, you got to do the thing. You know, you got to write things you got to do. But yeah, I'm practicing staying in that space.

Jamie Stephens  49:34

Yeah, I'm just learning about that space and like the home. Well, it's it's not that I'm just learning but it's, it's finally sinking in. You know, it takes a while. And you got to build up a few examples with yourself before you really start to trust that. Oh, okay. It's

49:53

not bullshit. Yeah, right. It's true. It can be easy. Yeah, it can't be No, I mean, I will say, actually, when I hired my, the editor for my book, we just happen to me. Like, I don't know how I saw him on LinkedIn. And I messaged him on LinkedIn and said, I'm writing this book, I'd love to talk to you. We talked, I loved him, he got me. I'm like, and this is how easy it is for you to get a client. This is, this is how easy it is for me to get help from my book. It's this easy. It just, it can be if you allow that.

Jamie Stephens  50:32

Yeah. Well, thank you. That's so generous of you. Um, I have said, my podcast launches, the end of December podcast is my birthday. So my 42nd birthday, I figure it'll like, go big or? Okay, let

50:49

me just fill you in on what's gonna happen at 42. Okay, my kids memorize that I saw this guy, this energy guru guy when we are in Sedona. So apparently, at 42, you have an emotional and mental crisis. Oh, cool. And it's sort of you. You're like, it's sort of like a coming of age. Like, I'm 42 into even more of you.

Jamie Stephens  51:18

I'm ready for more of

51:19

me. That's, that's when I left. Our business was 42.

Jamie Stephens  51:23

It comes full circle. It's like, Yeah, I'm done with all this other stuff. I don't really, like

51:30

4040 or so good.

Jamie Stephens  51:33

Yeah, that's my power in that, you know, it's like, Finally, all the things that you've gone through and put up with are finally like making sense, is what it feels like. And you're like, Yeah, okay, I am now aware of what I'm available for and what I'm not. And it's just black and white at this point. So it's in love, very empowering. So on my 42nd birthday, I'll have a crisis and also love.

52:04

This will be perfect to like be talking. I mean, that's a perfect foundation for bad gas.

Jamie Stephens  52:09

I just want to say a big thank you to Rachel for taking the time out of her schedule to meet with me. And let's go over some of the key takeaways from this conversation. Number one, be willing to have the courage to step into the unknown. Number two, there's more power in moving toward something versus escaping or running away from something. Number three, accountability flows from clarity. It's difficult to hold someone accountable when there's not clarity around expectations. Number four, you can't have integrity without authenticity. Number five, as a leader do the work to talk to people ask and actually listen. Number six, a strong foundation of balance and boundaries is required for sustainability. Number seven, take the time to do it right front loads of purpose, be transparent and show people their impact. If you want to learn more about Rachael you can find her on LinkedIn at Rachel laser kick that is ke e CK or Instagram at Rachel kick cares. And her book not everyone is like you is linked in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend or your boss. Make sure you're subscribed to receive new episodes and consider leaving a review on iTunes. Your support goes a long way in helping like minded folks find this show